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My apologies: it seems the user name "Progressives Against Hillary" was too long to allow for the comment link to appear after any posts. In sharing comments, please be sure to post the links of whatever you are citing so that other readers (myself included) may follow up on them. So far, the only issues explored have been Senator Clinton's acceptance of corporate/military dollars, her politicking and her support of the Israeli wall and the Iraq war. Please try to keep the discussion as fact-based as possible: what she's doing poses a serious danger to much of what our movement stands for, and it needs to be addressed in a responsible manner.
posted by PAH @ 9:15 PM
3 comments
3 Comments:
Consider this an ugly reality check, but goddamn it, I’m not going silently into the night.
Too many of you –even one is too many- are under the illusion that we’ll toss the GOP out in 2006, and everything will be OK. While I have no doubt we’ll regain at least one and probably both houses, I think we’re being set up for some serious shit in 2008.
George W. Bush NEVER should have gotten a second term. All of you know why he did, whether you actually admit it or not, you simply can not deny that the race was John Kerry’s to lose, and that he lost it in spectacular fashion to the most intellectually vacuous morally deranged President in American history. He lost it steadfastly, knowingly, against ALL advice from both his advisors, and from the overwhelming majority of his own party; he refused to say he regretted voting for the war.
That we are here now, with more than two thousand dead US soldiers, the administration stripped naked of their blatent lies every day, and you’re actually serious about being willing to vote for yet another candidate who not only refuses to apologize for her vote, but says “stay the course” and as recently as October actually said that “suicide bombings” were a sign of our success in Iraq.
Someone once said you get the government you deserve. I say that ANYONE willing to tolerate a candidate as politically opportunistic, as calculating, as scheming, and as gutless as Hillary Clinton, is going to get the government they deserve; either –as every poll CLEARLY indicates- she will lose in a landslide to Rudy or McCain, or if pigs fly, I absolutely assure you of a President which will only increase the rate at which the national cancer grows.
You people willing to support this woman are out of your fucking minds. The term “short sighted” doesn’t even begin to describe how disastrous this is going to be if you let it happen. She will almost certainly lose in a “déjà vu all over again” Kerry-like debacle and if she doesn’t, what she does once in office will all but insure that your getting rid of the GOP will have been nothing more than a 4 year break from it all.
But the real problem with Hillary, is obvious to anyone capable of actually considering the facts and doing a little reasoning; there is a very serious reason why she has chosen to embrace the Iraq war in the face of overwhelming national sentiment against it; consider the level of support for this war now among the public; Vietnam was never this unpopular. Only a candidate intent on not only continuing this war, but continuing the neo-con agenda in the middle east, would EVER fail to oppose a war this dishonest, this failed, and this unpopular; The reasoning leads to only one conclusion, and that conclusion is a perfect fit with her every word, and silence; Hillary Clinton too believes the United States should wage a war for control of the middle east. Only a simpleton with the mind of a child would look at this wounded super-power running out of gas –literally-, and believe that the powers which determine who can actually receive the nomination for POTUS in this utterly contemptible two-party RUSE, would allow anyone unwilling to wage this “eternal war” to become President. It’s right in your faces and you are the blindest, stupidest bunch of fucking sheep I’ve ever seen in my life. Every time you say “Well it’s got to be better than what we have”, they smile. They’ve got you hook line and sinker.
Mark my words; The Democratic establishment party is your REAL enemy now. If you get your heads out of your asses and look at the last 40 years you’ll realize they always have been. They only exist as a diversion, and if they have the ball FORCED on them once in a while, you’re going to see what we’ve always seen historically; and escalation of the war.
I predict that Hillary will lose, but either way, the next major event in the United States after the 2008 election is probably going to be a nuclear detonation in a major city with hundreds of thousands of people dead. The PNAC crowd was diligently working for decades out of sight of the public, and they’re NOT going to go away. And however stupid and inept the Bush administration has been, they certainly believe they have learned at least one thing; 9-11 wasn’t NEARLY enough for them to create the mega-police state they envision along with it’s final defrauding of the American people and destruction of our way of life. There absolutely IS something far, far scarier than George W. Bush and Co. pulling this shit on us; someone smarter pulling on us, with the complicity of the better half of America’s voters. Who are you going to cry to when WW3 starts in earnest with the dems in power?
WAKE THE FUCK UP AND STOP THE DLC BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE. You have to be willing to walk away and vote 3rd party. FEAR is why you won’t and fear will get you exactly what you fear most every time.
-Jay Esbe
Not so sure about WW3, but the thought of 2004+ is enough of a scare...I'd like to spread some of the blame for 2004 around. It was aided and abetted by the stupidest strategy we all ever adopted: ABB. Anybody But Bush. We *all* voted this way, we were all encouraged to vote this way. I guess I was the only person who got screamed at by a radical friend of mine, when I said I just could not pull the lever for someone who voted for the war in 2002: "What's the MATTER with you?? Do you want Bush to win?" Yeah, but...I said, but no one else I know did. Mom used to call it taking cod liver oil. I pulled the lever for Kerry in November, like every other "progressive" I know, therby scuttling into oblivion some very hard work against the war from 2002 on, voting against my own best interest, my own conscience. So did we all. So did our "leaders", from Noam Chomsky to Medea Benjamin to Howard Zinn. So: who's to blame for where we are now? You and me, maybe?
Here is what I'm going to do in 2006: Just Say No If They Said Yes. Period. Those who have "changed" their vote, and are actively working to end the war, I'll vote for. The war is the litmus test. End of story. Show me a reasonable third-party candidate, on the ballot and against the war from the git-go, and we're on.
As far as HRC goes: there is far, far more to this woman's rise than is evident. At base is money. She's the top Democratic fundraiser in the country. She's Midas: everyone she touches turns to cash. And cash is what runs the country, and politics, and the ballot, and the DNC (and the RNC), and just about everything else we think is democracy. What do we do about this? We take democracy into the streets. PoorPower. Down with Dems for Dollars. We disrupt; we stage theater; we act up, we act out, we dig up as much of the truth about HRC as we can and we get it out there, into the hands of neighbors, people at malls, people in front of Wal-Mart, town hall meetings, in line at DMV. We hand out Hillary info cards like business cards at doctor's offices. We might make brief ads and put them on cable access. We might fundraise (hey, MoveOn can do it) and pay for an ad on a local TV station. Because if we let her get reelected in NY in 2006, she will take her putative husband and just change desks in the White House in 2008, after this unfortunate brief hiatus of the past few years. Term limits my ass. You don't think the country is "ready for a change", ready to elect a "real Democrat", ready for a "woman president"? Hohohohoho...
I want an organization called MoveOut. For those of us who have Had It with everything else.
I agree Chillary; it is time to 'Moveout'.
Better to fall with honor than to stand in disgrace.
-Jay Esbe
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